Inclusion, the Arts, and School as a Social Context

KKA discussed inclusion, the attractiveness of the arts, and school as a social context with the education expert Heidi Schrodt, the dancer Daniela Heißl and the provincial superintendent of schools Dietmar Vollmann.

The following is an excerpt from the interview:

KKA: How good do you think the chances are for Austria to develop an inclusive system of education?

Heidi Schrodt: I have been familiar with the term and the underlying pedagogical concepts for about ten years, ever since “inclusion” began replacing the term “integration”. The starting situation in Austria is similar to that in many other countries. We have not yet come very far in implementing inclusion in the Austrian school system. In an inclusive school system, for example, special needs schools would no longer be required. An inclusive school means that all the children are taught and learn together in regular classes, and therefore it means knowing how to deal with diversity in the classroom. From an inclusive perspective, education means teaching a variety of people with a variety of characteristics and needs.

Dietmar Vollmann: In Austria, discussion about integrating young people with disadvantages is actually only taking place in the field of compulsory education. Integrative vocational training, which has existed since 2003, is enshrined in the Vocational Training Act. This is a concern of the Federal Ministry of Economy, Family and Youth. But there is not a single education act that refers to integrative vocational training, that is to say, the training of young people with disabilities in vocational schools. On the basis of certain ordinances issued by the Federal Ministry for Education, Arts and Culture, the individual needs of young people can be taken into account. However, a great deal still needs to be done in this area. In compulsory education we have very many possibilities. The most inclusive schools are still the primary schools. In my opinion, very good work is being done there in this respect. The higher the school level, the greater the disparity between objectives and reality as far as inclusive education is concerned.

KKA: On the one hand, we’ve been talking about the deficits of our school system; on the other hand, the potentials of an inclusive school system are remarkable...

Heidi Schrodt: One of the deficits of our system is that potentials are not even being recognised as such. This is not a contradiction in terms; if I don’t focus on diversity in a school class, then I’m not going to perceive its potential.

Dietmar Vollmann: If we thought and acted in an inclusive way, we would be input-oriented. In other words: we would work with whoever came to the school and make an effort to achieve the best possible results. However, our school policy is very output-oriented and concerned with questions such as: How many pupils have passed? Or: How does this benefit the labour market? This is a very short-sighted viewpoint. In our society we need people with a solid basic education who also have social competences. And that means we have to promote creativity much more than we have done so far, because people need to be able to adapt to new situations all the time. The current school system hardly takes this into account at all. We force the pupils into specialisation extremely early.

Heidi Schrodt: Studies have shown that, in fact, very many children end up in the wrong schools. An inclusive school can, of course, only be one school; it can’t become selective as of a certain point in time. It can only be a comprehensive school. How that school is organised is another question. But all children of compulsory school age should be attending a comprehensive school, not being split up into separate tracks for either academic or vocational schooling at the tender age of ten.

KKA: We’re talking about inclusion, but on the other hand we also have a labour market problem, a social problem and, increasingly, the problem that young people are psychologically rejecting school. Quite often you hear that these young people no longer see the value in education or consider it an important foundation for life. Obtaining a formal academic qualification is increasingly losing its attractiveness. And the persuasive power behind it is weakening. What is your opinion on this?

Heidi Schrodt: I know these “early school leavers” who drop out of school before they have obtained a leaving certificate. Sometimes they are young people in an academic upper secondary school who give up after having to repeat a level twice. So it’s not necessarily only pupils who have not completed their nine years of compulsory schooling. Young people fall out of the system for a wide variety of reasons. Sometimes they are even highly gifted youngsters, who at some point develop behavioural problems because their abilities are not recognised and nurtured. Then, of course, there are also those who leave as a result of their backgrounds, for example those who come from educationally disadvantaged groups of the population.

Dietmar Vollmann: In Austria we concern ourselves far too little with those young people who neither remain in the school system nor enter into vocational training once they are no longer of compulsory school age. There are no valid statistics at all on how many young people over fifteen do not continue their education or pursue further training. We know how many go to academic or vocational secondary schools. We also know how many become apprentices. But what about those who do neither the one nor the other? Unless they make an effort themselves, or a guardian attempts to persuade them to do further training, for example with the help of the Public Employment Services, then they fall out of the system. Secondary schools are not required by law to give support or advice to dropouts or to pass them on to other institutions that will do so. For this reason, we don’t know what happens to the young people who drop out of school somewhere between the ninth and the twelfth or thirteenth level. It is a serious flaw in the system that they are not watched over, advised and given support.

KKA: One has the feeling that the attractiveness of schools for young people is diminishing...
 
Daniela Heißl: I find discussions about our educational mission or the right to education extremely exciting and very necessary. But for me another question is important, namely what kind of place a school is. Do I have a social network there? Do I feel an emotional attachment to the school? Does somebody there care about me? What kind of communicative behaviour is predominant in a classroom or in a school? Am I included in the social network? A teacher is not just someone who imparts knowledge, a teacher is also a role model. Just yesterday I was thinking that a school is a stage, all the time. When a teacher walks down the hall, it’s like making an entrance onstage. Everyone observes closely how he walks, what he looks like. There is a code of behaviour. School is very much a social context, where knowledge is also imparted and where specialisation and, of course, education and training take place.

KKA: In your experience, are young people very consumption-oriented? Do you have the impression that they’re asking what the teachers have to offer them?

Heidi Schrodt: In Vienna some people go “school shopping”. On open house day, you sometimes meet parents that have already looked at many other schools with their children. And then they seem to think: “I have chosen this school, and now it has to be perfect and offer everything.” Some of the pupils then develop a consumer attitude: they sit back and wait to see what is offered each day. The teacher-student-parent relationship has changed in many ways – although it would be wrong to try to generalise. One of my relatives teaches at a cooperative middle school and the situation there is completely different from what we have just described. She doesn’t have consumers, she has students on the brink of dropping out, students that sometimes have to be collected from the Danube Island and brought back to school. Sometimes the police bring them.

KKA: Let’s go back to the consumer attitude of students, Ms. Heißl. You, as a dancer, can offer a great deal in this respect, isn’t this true? Without wanting to provoke you: Wouldn’t you say that in comparison to, say, the average math lesson, what you have to offer is bound to be very attractive and probably also elitist in nature?

Daniela Heißl: Yes, that’s true. As an artist, one is naturally part of an elite, no matter what school one goes to. Of course it’s exciting to be able to sense what is attractive and “in” at a school at a particular time, or even what the students need. Sometimes it’s obvious that they’re very carefully assessing what I have to offer as a dancer and how I approach problems and deal with them. But sometimes my work can be a real help to individual students.

KKA: Artistic intervention?

Daniela Heißl: Yes, sometimes in the case of language barriers, for instance. Then I can strengthen the pupils’ resources in movement and in physical expression – in other words, in an area where it doesn’t matter whether they have a good grasp of the German language or not. In artistic work I get the impression that we’re addressing certain potentials that otherwise would not be addressed. The artistic intervention spotlights the social geography of a school; it shows which problems and which potentials a school has. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a school in a deprived area or an elite school. The basis of the work is the social context that the school presents. And dance is certainly no cure-all. I could also achieve a great deal with sports or music. I sometimes ask myself how many projects a school really needs to offer. The real question is: How do we deal with learning and the imparting of knowledge? How much is learning and teaching worth to us?

Dietmar Vollmann: We know, from innumerable studies, that a good teacher-pupil relationship makes learning considerably easier. If the teacher opens up on a personal level, then the pupil will risk doing the same. Otherwise there are always reservations. Good teachers make a good school.

Heidi Schrodt: I agree with that 100 percent.

Dietmar Vollmann is Provincial Superintendent of Vocational Compulsory Schools for the Styrian School Board. Additionally, he is a member of the Federal Advisory Committee on Vocational Training, the Styrian Provincial Government’s Advisory Committee on Vocational Schools, and the Committee of Experts of the European Agency for Development in Special Needs Education.
www.lsr-stmk.gv.at/

Heidi Schrodt studied English language and literature and German language and literature. She taught for 17 years at an academic secondary school in Vienna, and for 19 years was the principal of the Gymnasium Rahlgasse academic secondary school in Vienna. She is a member of the Commission of Experts “Zukunft der Schule” (“Future of the Schools”) of the Federal Ministry for Education, Arts and Culture. Schrodt has received numerous awards, including the Golden Decoration for Service to the Republic of Austria, the Women’s Prize of the City of Vienna and the Democracy Prize of the Margaretha Lupac Foundation.
www.bildunggrenzenlos.at/

Daniela Heißl studied dance pedagogy and modern dance at Konservatorium Wien University and in New York. In addition, she completed acting training with a certificate recognised in Germany and Austria. Heißl works as a freelance dancer, dance teacher, choreographer and actress. She teaches at Konservatorium Wien University. She and Valerie Klein are the artistic directors of the Klang.Körper dance company.
www.klangkoerper.biz/